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View Full Version : Car won't want to start (sometimes)



EK20
2012.05.09, 10:55 AM
So randomly the car will not want to start without putting up a fight. It only seems to happen later on at night. After not wanting to start but eventually starting, if she sits overnight she'll start up just fine and run perfectly the next day.

Car: 2004 A6 2.7T S-line (w/ ~110,000 miles)

Recent repairs: New aftermarket front axles, new head gaskets, pretty much all new front suspension, new alternator, new windshield (and cowling), new battery. Everything but the suspension bits and alternator were installed at Barrier.

Modifications: APR stage 1 chip, APR exhaust, APR Bi-Pipe Kit, APR diverter valves, H&R Coilovers, Stoptech pads and rotors. All modifications were done at Achtuning.

Faults:

19537 - Engine Temp too low
P3081 - 35-10 - Intermittent

16684 - Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected
P0300 - 35-10 - Intermittent

16687 - Cylinder 3
P0303 - 35-10 - Misfire Detected - Intermittent

16688 - Cylinder 4
P0304 - 35-10 - Misfire Detected - Intermittent

18010 - Power Supply Terminal 30
P1602 - 35-10 - Voltage Too Low - Intermittent

Readiness: 0000 0000

She drives and behaves fine 98% of the time, but that other 2% she lets her German heritage show.

Jazzydub
2012.05.09, 11:08 AM
She drives and behaves fine 98% of the time, but that other 2% she lets her German heritage show.Haha!



Anytime I have a problem that is inconsistent I always assume it's something electrical like a sensor. Of course most the time I have no clue what's wrong with my car.

EK20
2012.05.09, 11:30 AM
Anytime I have a problem that is inconsistent I always assume it's something electrical like a sensor. Of course most the time I have no clue what's wrong with my car.

Yeah, my first guess is something electrical. I'm sure those damn coilpacks are involved somehow.

Rabbit 16v
2012.05.09, 11:45 AM
What does no start mean? Long cranking? no cranking? Need more info. Also, why were the headgaskets replaced? Seems like a rather odd failure.

AlexPirate
2012.05.09, 12:47 PM
TPS adapt?

EK20
2012.05.09, 13:23 PM
What does no start mean? Long cranking? no cranking? Need more info. Also, why were the headgaskets replaced? Seems like a rather odd failure.

It'll crank and crank, but it won't turn over. The headgaskets were replaced because they were leaking. At least they damn well better have been because that wasn't a cheap job.

Twelvizm
2012.05.09, 13:46 PM
Coilpack have any cracks in it? Is there any signs of water damage around the ECU compartment? Corrosion on the harness/ecu connector?

EK20
2012.05.09, 14:25 PM
Hmm, I haven't taken a close look at the coilpacks yet. Water damage is possible since there was a leak under the cowling piece at the bottom of the windshield, which is why it was replaced. The water was never left long before being sucked up, but that is very possible the cause.

Twelvizm
2012.05.09, 14:34 PM
My ideas were just a corrosion shot in the dark. I know that water is prone to collect in the cowl by the ECU. And by the intermittent nature of the problem, as stated by Jazzydub, I was also thinking electrical/corrosion. I'd check all the spark-related connectors and signal-bearing connectors in general.

And those coilpack bricks are prone to melting, cracking etc and I've seen weird symptoms as a result. And it's a quick check, you can normally visually inspect it and check it off the list.

Rabbit 16v
2012.05.09, 14:43 PM
It'll crank and crank, but it won't turn over. The headgaskets were replaced because they were leaking. At least they damn well better have been because that wasn't a cheap job.

Never seen leaking headgaskets. Just from my experience. I have seen lots of leaking valve cover gaskets and cam seals, but never a leaking head gasket.

As far as the leak goes, are you sure it wasnt coming from the seal for the ECU box or the box for the cabin filter? That is usually the water leak culprit.

Anyway, back to your problem at hand. This is a classic symptom of a failing coolant temp sensor. A failing CTS will make for incorrect fuel mixture and that leads to misfires. Usually a failing ignition coil will present itself under load or when the engine is warm, or both. Not common to see a failing coil when starting cold and have it go away after it is warm. Do you have VCDS?

EK20
2012.05.09, 15:35 PM
I'm not sure why I said head-gaskets, I meant the valve cover gaskets.

As for the leak, yeah, it was coming in from the cowl piece. There was a large gap between the windshield and the cowl. Plus the windshield was mounted too low and nothing lined up there properly. The water was leaking in from there into the cabin filter and then into the front passenger foot well.

I've had bad coilpacks before, so I know what usually happens, but that was my best uneducated guess offhand. Is the CTS easy/cheap to diagnose or replace? And what about the engine temp sensor?

EK20
2012.05.09, 15:37 PM
And those coilpack bricks are prone to melting, cracking etc and I've seen weird symptoms as a result. And it's a quick check, you can normally visually inspect it and check it off the list.

I will be sure to do that. I hope to have some time tomorrow to do that. If there isn't a TSB out for those little shits, there should be. As often as they seem to fail.

unimogken
2012.05.09, 15:52 PM
I read this on my phone and I was going to post earlier but I'm late to the party now and it sounds like you got it kinda sorted out.

I was going to say that it could be a ground that might of not been hooked up after your gasket replacement?

Darn fancy cars with all of these electronics!

Jazzydub
2012.05.09, 16:06 PM
If the CTS on that is anything like a 1.8t or 2.0 then they're super easy and pretty cheap. Took me like 10 minutes to switch mine out and most of that time was trying to find the clip I dropped.

EK20
2012.05.09, 16:30 PM
That's good to hear. It looks like ECS has them for $17.64, and that's for the genuine VW/Audi part.

Rabbit 16v
2012.05.09, 16:41 PM
I'm not sure why I said head-gaskets, I meant the valve cover gaskets.

As for the leak, yeah, it was coming in from the cowl piece. There was a large gap between the windshield and the cowl. Plus the windshield was mounted too low and nothing lined up there properly. The water was leaking in from there into the cabin filter and then into the front passenger foot well.

I've had bad coilpacks before, so I know what usually happens, but that was my best uneducated guess offhand. Is the CTS easy/cheap to diagnose or replace? And what about the engine temp sensor?

Ok, yeah, valve cover gaskets make much more sense ;) hopefully you had the cam adjuster gasket replaced as well at the same time (cam plugs too). I have heard of it leaking through cowl area as well, but usually only with an aftermarket windshield, so that could be the case there.

The CTS is pretty cheap ($13 IIRC), and according to the book, it should only take half an hour. However, it is located on the back of the cylinder head on the passenger side. I think the labor guide is full of shit because if you have EGR valves, then it is not so easy to get to. The CTS IS the engine temp sensor as well as the sensor for the gauge.


I will be sure to do that. I hope to have some time tomorrow to do that. If there isn't a TSB out for those little shits, there should be. As often as they seem to fail.

There is actually a recall for them. Twelvism, his car has ignition coils and not the coilpack.


If the CTS on that is anything like a 1.8t or 2.0 then they're super easy and pretty cheap. Took me like 10 minutes to switch mine out and most of that time was trying to find the clip I dropped.

yeah, not so easy :P especially if he loses the clip!

burbleburble
2012.05.09, 18:44 PM
yeah, not so easy :P especially if he loses the clip!

Or if he forgets to take out the old o-ring before putting the new one in. If you don't do that, you run the risk of looking like a f&%&ing moron in front of fine tuning when you're basically doing push ups on the sensor trying to seat the sensor in the housing. Still can't believe I didn't break the flange off.

Rabbit 16v
2012.05.09, 19:06 PM
I saw nothing... ;)

Twelvizm
2012.05.09, 20:04 PM
Twelvizm, his car has ignition coils and not the coilpack.

I was getting confused with the 2.6. NewB!

Rabbit 16v
2012.05.09, 21:27 PM
Whoa. 2.6? Is that new?

Twelvizm
2012.05.10, 05:03 AM
Old.

Rabbit 16v
2012.05.10, 08:03 AM
I have never seen a 2.6 VWaG engine...

Twelvizm
2012.05.10, 08:31 AM
Seriously? 2.6 V6 12v SOHC used on B4's and B5's

http://www.12v.org/engine/images/cutaway.jpg
http://www.slavgasbg.com/gallery/AUDI%202.6%20-%2096.JPG

unimogken
2012.05.10, 08:48 AM
Did you get this figured out yet?

EK20
2012.05.10, 09:06 AM
I have heard of it leaking through cowl area as well, but usually only with an aftermarket windshield, so that could be the case there.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure the old windshield was aftermarket. I'll look and see if I can even see the CTS. :P

EK20
2012.05.10, 09:07 AM
Did you get this figured out yet?

I think we're getting close.

She was on her best behavior yesterday. I guess the threat of giving her ARCO gas instead of Chevron worked. :D

Rabbit 16v
2012.05.10, 09:41 AM
Seriously? 2.6 V6 12v SOHC used on B4's and B5's

http://www.12v.org/engine/images/cutaway.jpg
http://www.slavgasbg.com/gallery/AUDI%202.6%20-%2096.JPG

Thats a 2.8, dork :P

Rabbit 16v
2012.05.10, 10:13 AM
Also, no V6 engine in a B4 :P

Twelvizm
2012.05.10, 10:24 AM
That's a 2.6 and it did come in the B4. I've photographed one:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audi_80

Here's an Audi 80 with a 2.6 V6 Quattro
http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4127/5061496316_51257d9b75_b.jpg

Twelvizm
2012.05.10, 10:27 AM
So next comes the part where you say that it was never brought over from Europe huh? :P

Twelvizm
2012.05.10, 11:11 AM
Now, I know I messed up when I wronte 2.6 instead of 2.8. But, it's fun messing around with because there is indeed a 2.6 V6. :P

Rabbit 16v
2012.05.10, 11:39 AM
I was referring to a VW B4 and yes it doesnt count if it was in europe and not the US. :P

Twelvizm
2012.05.10, 11:49 AM
That's it, I'm buying you a beer next time I see you. And when you go for your first drink, I'm thwapping you in the junk.

Jazzydub
2012.05.10, 12:00 PM
I have never seen a 2.6 VWaG engine...

Are you sure? A quick google search showed that Audi did make a 2.6l 5-cylinder engine. Maybe it was never offered in NA?

Rabbit 16v
2012.05.10, 12:14 PM
That's it, I'm buying you a beer next time I see you. And when you go for your first drink, I'm thwapping you in the junk.

Lol!


Are you sure? A quick google search showed that Audi did make a 2.6l 5-cylinder engine. Maybe it was never offered in NA?

Never offered in NA. I may have seen one in Europe.. but I saw a bunch of weird motors there.

unimogken
2012.05.10, 13:08 PM
Thread hijackers! :P

EK20
2012.05.10, 14:51 PM
Haha! :D

Well, I picked up a new CTS from barrier. Wasn't cheap, but at least I have it right now so I can hopefully get this taken care of today.

Twelvizm
2012.05.10, 14:56 PM
Dealership? Oh hell no! Robbery!

Check out http://www.blunttech.com next time.

EK20
2012.05.10, 15:33 PM
Yeah, I saw ECS had it for cheap too, but I wanted to get started on this today. Of course, after poking around I haven't seen hide nor hair of any CTS.

Rabbit 16v
2012.05.10, 15:36 PM
I know a place that has them in stock for $13. :P

burbleburble
2012.05.10, 15:43 PM
christ almighty, fine tuning can get you same day service for less than a dealer. plus the shop smells better than a dealer.

EK20
2012.05.10, 15:49 PM
Yeah, I know. It's all the potpourri. :D

I think it might be a good idea to let the engine cool off more since I've been driving around all day, so I'm gonna tackle this tomorrow before heading out to partially celebrate an early Mother's Day.

joel
2012.05.11, 03:56 AM
Yeah, I know. It's all the potpourri. :D

barrier? seriously? you live in Mill Creek. Isn't Fine Tuning closer? Come now Nate :D

unimogken
2012.05.11, 08:22 AM
I wouldn't even tell an enemy to go there because of a couple crappy experiences i've had with them!

FT FTW!

EK20
2012.05.11, 09:11 AM
barrier? seriously? you live in Mill Creek. Isn't Fine Tuning closer? Come now Nate :D

I was out and about all day so Barrier was right on the way to the Woodinville Costco. :D

EK20
2012.05.11, 11:42 AM
OK, found it. Got the clip off, got the old sensor out with the old o-ring, and now the new one isn't going in at all. Or maybe it doesn't need to go in as far as I'm trying to get it in.

Rabbit 16v
2012.05.11, 11:59 AM
Or maybe it doesn't need to go in as far as I'm trying to get it in.

Thats what she said?

It needs to go in far enough that you can secure it properly with the clip.

EK20
2012.05.11, 12:04 PM
Seems like it's in and clipped. We'll swing by and get an experts opinion. :P

Rabbit 16v
2012.05.11, 12:22 PM
:thumbup:

EK20
2012.05.11, 14:32 PM
The expert opinion was much appreciated. :D

I'm sure the scalded flesh wasn't though.

Rabbit 16v
2012.05.11, 14:56 PM
Glad to help. Yes the 1st degree burns are slightly inconvenient... ;)

unimogken
2012.05.11, 15:00 PM
Get some "silvadene" for the burns!

EK20
2012.05.11, 17:43 PM
I hear rubbing scheise on the burns help a lot. I might not be a doctor, but I play one on the internet. :D

Rabbit 16v
2012.05.11, 21:39 PM
Tried that. The wife said it smelled bad. Maybe I should try non human schieße?

EK20
2012.05.12, 17:50 PM
Yeah, I think Eastern European dog scheise works best.

Rabbit 16v
2012.05.12, 19:45 PM
There is no way I am going to rub high end cuisine on my burns instead of eating it!

EK20
2012.05.13, 17:38 PM
Haha! :D

Rabbit 16v
2012.05.14, 17:54 PM
;) so since I have these nice blisters reminding me, is it starting every time now?

EK20
2012.05.14, 19:10 PM
Indeed she is. Miraculously, getting better mileage too. :P

Rabbit 16v
2012.05.14, 19:34 PM
[Mr. Burns] Eeexcellent! [/Mr. Burns]

No pun of course :P

joel
2012.05.17, 03:08 AM
awesome :D