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joel
2013.04.07, 14:42 PM
if you hadn't followed in the chit chat thread.. I dumped my M3 into a marsh Saturday night.

The car made a big splash, nose first, and I turned the car off as soon as I could afterward (couple of seconds). I do not know if the engine was still running at that time, or if it had already stalled because of water blocking the intake.

So, if the car sits for a few days and lets things dry up pretty good, and I remove the soaked air filter, etc.... what danger is there of trying to start the engine? I would not be surprised if some water got into the engine through the intake, but I can't imagine it was much at all.

Rabbit 16v
2013.04.07, 15:20 PM
If you think you got water in the intake, DO NOT LET IT SIT!! Pull the spark plugs, disconnect the coil and crank it over. If there was damage done (hydrolocking) letting it sit isnt going to fix it. Letting it sit will only rust the cylinder bores. If you take the plugs out and crank it over, dont stand in front of the spark plug holes. I have seen water shoot 25 feet from a hydrolocked engine with great force. You may be in big trouble if it was in a few feet of water... especially if there are any control modules below the water level. You will want to replace all the fluids in the drivetrain as well. Probably not coolant, but water has a pretty good way to get into things when said things are submerged.

joel
2013.04.07, 15:34 PM
ok then... time to figure out how to pull spark plugs and disconnect the coil

I'm not worried about electronics just yet. Electronics can get wet, and as long as there wasn't a short while they had power, they can dry out and be ok. I am not sure that's the case, but I'll have to worry about it later. Most control modules in this car are behind the glove box.. thankfully.

joel
2013.04.07, 16:19 PM
Hey Chris... what happens if I pull the plugs and coils, crank the engine, and there's no water in the engine? Fuel shoots out?

Rabbit 16v
2013.04.07, 16:46 PM
Naw. I mean you could pull the fp fuse too if you like. I wouldnt recommend standing in front the spark plug holes with a lit torch... It will not hurt anything if you crank it over with teh plugs out. At least it will give you an idea if there is any water in there..

joel
2013.04.07, 18:37 PM
fp fuse? fuel pump fuse... I suppose

Rabbit 16v
2013.04.07, 18:46 PM
yes, fuel pump fuse. sorry about that.

joel
2013.04.07, 18:59 PM
haha... no problem :D

joel
2013.04.07, 19:11 PM
so this is new to me, but I guess the E36 doesn't have a single ignition coil.. but has coils over each of the six spark plugs. So I'm just pulling the coils off, the spark plugs out.. and giving it a go, it seems

Rabbit 16v
2013.04.07, 19:17 PM
Oh yeah, forgot about COP. Makes it much harder. either way, needs to be done.

joel
2013.04.07, 19:22 PM
acronyms... dude :D
had to look it up... coil on plug, apparently

why is it harder? From what I can tell removing the coils and the plugs is pretty easy on this head. http://www.pelicanparts.com/bmw/techarticles/E36-Spark-Plugs/E36-Spark-Plugs.htm

Rabbit 16v
2013.04.07, 19:44 PM
well, if you had spark plugs wires, you wouldnt need a tool to unbolt the COPs :P

joel
2013.04.07, 20:07 PM
haha

using a screw driver and a socket wrench seems ok to me :P


I'll have to get to this later tonight, after I get some coverage at work. I need to pull the air filter out too.. dry it out

joel
2013.04.08, 02:53 AM
well.. definitely had water up inside the intake.. cleaned all of that out, dumped a bunch of water out of the hoses there, etc. Pulled the coils and spark plugs and then turned the engine over quite a bit. Some water shot out a few times, and it slowly turned more and more to fuel.

So does that mean that we got most of the water out... or does it just mean that water is definitely in the engine and that more work has to be done?

Rabbit 16v
2013.04.08, 10:32 AM
well.. definitely had water up inside the intake.. cleaned all of that out, dumped a bunch of water out of the hoses there, etc. Pulled the coils and spark plugs and then turned the engine over quite a bit. Some water shot out a few times, and it slowly turned more and more to fuel.

So does that mean that we got most of the water out... or does it just mean that water is definitely in the engine and that more work has to be done?

it should all be out now. if you have a compression tester, you could check to see if any rods got bent. if not, you can put the plugs back in and put it all back together and see how it runs.

joel
2013.04.08, 15:33 PM
it should all be out now. if you have a compression tester, you could check to see if any rods got bent. if not, you can put the plugs back in and put it all back together and see how it runs.

sweet! I have hope for this :D

I'll have to move these posts to a technical thread :P

joel
2013.04.08, 15:35 PM
it should all be out now. if you have a compression tester, you could check to see if any rods got bent. if not, you can put the plugs back in and put it all back together and see how it runs.

fwiw.. water only really shot out a few feet from a couple of the cylinders, then burbled a bit, then went away. I don't know what it takes to have an engine hydrolocked :(

benny_mech
2013.04.10, 10:20 AM
Hydrolocked means that the cylinder filled up with water, which is obviously incompressible, and when the valves shut and the piston tries to move up, it can't. If it happens at high rpm, there's enough stored energy in the rotating and reciprocating parts that you can bend a rod in the hydrolocked cylinder(s). Removing the spark plugs gives the water a pathway out, which removes the hydrolocked condition. If the motor spins, by definition it is not hydrolocked. As chris said though, you can still have a bent rod. A quick compression check will give you an answer there. Shorter rods mean lower compression.

joel
2013.04.10, 10:37 AM
thanks
I'm hoping I can do a compression check today. The problem is that I don't have a baseline, but I guess I'll see what happens.

benny_mech
2013.04.10, 11:16 AM
You'd typically look for one number that is lower than the others anyways. IIRC ~160 to 180 psi is a good number. Slightly lower may indicate wear, but way lower indicates something is bent or broken. If you've got a service manual, it should tell you exactly what the compression should be for a new engine, and what the wear limit is (time for tear down if the number is below xxx psi). Higher than "new" compression numbers can also indicate carbon buildup that needs to be removed; so if you see 220 psi, that doesn't mean your engine is just awesome. ;-)

Rabbit 16v
2013.04.10, 11:29 AM
to make this determination even harder, I have seen an engine with a compression discrepancy of 20psi that had a bent rod. It still ran ok, it was jsut making a noise from the piston skirt very lightly tapping the oil squirter boss.

But yeah, if all the numbers are the same, then you should be good to go.

joel
2013.04.10, 14:52 PM
any compression test I do is going to be cold.. but I suppose that's ok if I'm worried mostly about rods being bent. I'm not sure how that will affect the psi range that I'll get though.

Bentley says the minimum is around 145 - 155 psi... and any difference of more than about 10psi is too much, iirc.

Rabbit 16v
2013.04.10, 18:52 PM
since you have gotten all the water out.. provided there are no electriclings (customer coined term) problems, then you can start it and check it warmed up. if you have a significantly bent rod, you will know right away. make sure to rotate the engine by hand before attempting to start it.

joel
2013.04.10, 20:00 PM
grr... right now I'm dealing with an oil spill I caused while trying to change the oil. Crappy week :sly:

joel
2013.04.11, 09:32 AM
so last night I dumped the oil that was in the car. It's full synthetic with maybe a little over 1000 miles on it. It looked pretty clean at first, but now that the oil has been sitting in the pan overnight I can tip the pan to the side and see a few bubbles sitting at the bottom. I suppose that's water :(


now I need to find more oil.. Castrol Edge 10w-40 is tough to find.

benny_mech
2013.04.11, 10:17 AM
I'd be tempted to drop the pan and clean it out really good. Not sure how much of a PITA that is on the M3 though.

joel
2013.04.11, 10:25 AM
I'd be tempted to drop the pan and clean it out really good. Not sure how much of a PITA that is on the M3 though.

massive

the whole front suspension has to be dropped. It's a 5 - 8 hour job depending on the mechanic.

I'll pull the pan later this year in order to install a baffle, replace oil pump bits, and probably will probably also replace lower bearings if they look at all worn.

benny_mech
2013.04.11, 12:53 PM
That sucks. One really nice thing about all the A1 through A3 chassis VW's is how accessible the pan is. Dropping it out of my B5 was a shade easier than pulling the entire engine. :mad:

joel
2013.04.11, 17:03 PM
yeah...

when I first got the M3 it had some major oil leaks from all over. A couple mechanics speculated that the oil pan gasket needed replacing. I was pretty happy that fixing nearly everything else that oil could leak from stopped the oil leaks :P

Rabbit 16v
2013.04.11, 19:08 PM
Doh! totally forgot about that oil you wanted. Its still sitting in the new parts bin at the shop...

joel
2013.04.11, 22:32 PM
yeah... forgot too. I'm actually expecting to be in Seattle again tomorrow. I'll stop by if possible. Otherwise I'll have to look elsewhere :(