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Thread: Alex's '92 Porsche 968 - 944 Turbo Transplant Project

  1. #26
    A Somebody Mr.Nobody is a jewel in the rough Mr.Nobody is a jewel in the rough Mr.Nobody is a jewel in the rough Mr.Nobody's Avatar
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    MY vote!

    Quote: Originally Posted by alxdgr8 View Post
    Riviera Blue:

  2. #27
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    twardnw is just really nice twardnw is just really nice twardnw is just really nice twardnw is just really nice twardnw's Avatar
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    orange
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  3. #28
    Quote: Originally Posted by alxdgr8 View Post
    Speed Yellow:
    wow...
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  4. #29
    Regular Member alxdgr8 will become famous soon enough
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    Orange has had my heart before, I think it's in the lead...

    My $50 rustoleum roller paint job on my 931
    -Alex @vexartmedia-
    '03 Audi S8 (Avus/Oxblood - DD)
    '92 Porsche 968 (VW 07k 2.5T swap in the works) --- '86 Audi Coupe GT (2.3L 20v swap) ---'83 Audi UrQuattro (2.2L 20vt swap in progress)

  5. #30
    I've never seen that yellow before.. and the kit in that photo looks nice
    tell all of your local car enthusiast friends where the best place is to meet other local enthusiasts!
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  6. #31
    Regular Member alxdgr8 will become famous soon enough
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    Mainly been cleaning/blasting/powdercoating every part of the engine recently getting it ready for assembly. Haven't made much progress on bodywork. Scored an insane deal on a new blast cabinet through Boeing's surplus auction site. Got this for $300. It's 4'Wx2'Dx1.5'H working area and made up from ~$1k worth of 6061-T6 aircraft grade aluminum mounted on Bosch aluminum extrusion. Now I just need a larger oven for powdercoating even larger things!





    Just a little bit bigger than my old cabinet that's sitting on my oven
    -Alex @vexartmedia-
    '03 Audi S8 (Avus/Oxblood - DD)
    '92 Porsche 968 (VW 07k 2.5T swap in the works) --- '86 Audi Coupe GT (2.3L 20v swap) ---'83 Audi UrQuattro (2.2L 20vt swap in progress)

  7. #32
    Regular Member benny_mech will become famous soon enough
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    Nice score! Boeing sure does like to do things the hard way...

    Any updates on the project? I was reading this:

    http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/why...sche-487272021

    and was reminded of this thread. An old Porsche is on my very short list of must haves, but haven't owned yet.
    “Religion is a defense against the experience of God.”
    — C.G. Jung

  8. #33
    Regular Member alxdgr8 will become famous soon enough
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    Nothing really to update as of late. Been working on getting my new compressor up and running so I can blast some more parts and get to powdercoating for engine assembly. Nearly have the chassis wiring harness pulled out, I just have to drill out a shear bolt on the steering column as it's the last bit holding the harness in. Then I can continue interior stripping and figure out what to seal it with before paint.
    -Alex @vexartmedia-
    '03 Audi S8 (Avus/Oxblood - DD)
    '92 Porsche 968 (VW 07k 2.5T swap in the works) --- '86 Audi Coupe GT (2.3L 20v swap) ---'83 Audi UrQuattro (2.2L 20vt swap in progress)

  9. #34
    Regular Member alxdgr8 will become famous soon enough
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    I've officially moved up my timeline for doing a 2.5L I5 07K swap. The Porsche motor will be re-assembled and then sold instead of running it in the car for a while.

    Purchased an 07K from a 2012 Jetta with 35k miles (and got the wiring harness too) for $600.



    07K is the same displacement, 2.5L.
    07K has one more cylinder, I5 vs I4.
    07K has 12 more valves, 20v DOHC vs 8v SOHC.
    07K is an iron block with cast aluminum head vs all aluminum (alusil) for the Porsche.
    07K can have a forged crank (early ones or TT-RS) with cast rods and crank vs the all-forged (crank/rods/pistons) Porsche.
    07K can be had for <$500 for a complete engine with <50k miles vs $1k+ and lots of miles.
    07K is 6.5" shorter from bellhousing to crank pulley.
    07K block is 2.5" shorter.
    07K is 4" longer on the rear of the motor above the bellhousing due to the timing chain/etc.
    07K has VVT on the intake came vs one cam with none.
    07K can rev to 8500rpm stock where the 951 doesn't live long at 7000rpm.
    07K weighs ~20-30lbs lighter overall with turbo/manifolds/clutch/etc.
    07K can make 400whp on stock everything (including cast crank/pistons/rods) vs about the same on the 951 engine (at higher boost and higher octane fuel on the 951).
    07K cylinder head flows 230cfm (x5 cyl) stock vs 180cfm (x4 cyl) stock on the Porsche.
    A plug-n-play standalone ECU will soon be available for the 07K harness where nothing of the sort is available for the 951 (and the 951 suffers from a 25 year old fragile degrading harness). It'll cost about the same as a MAF kit for a 951.

    Sure there are some expenses to get the 07K into a 924/944/968, but that can be made up by selling the 951 engine. The rest of the upgrade costs in either build are a wash. The 07K is cheaper vs Porsche, but you have to buy 5 instead of 4.

    My initial build will most likely keep the stock internals and aim for 400whp. I'll then purchase the forged TT-RS crank along with rods and pistons and go for 500-600whp, or whatever I can get on pump gas.
    -Alex @vexartmedia-
    '03 Audi S8 (Avus/Oxblood - DD)
    '92 Porsche 968 (VW 07k 2.5T swap in the works) --- '86 Audi Coupe GT (2.3L 20v swap) ---'83 Audi UrQuattro (2.2L 20vt swap in progress)

  10. #35
    Normal Member ExplosiveToaster will become famous soon enough ExplosiveToaster's Avatar
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    Quote: Originally Posted by alxdgr8 View Post
    07K can rev to 8500rpm stock
    whaaaaat? So any ol' rabbit could have its redline bumped up that high? I assume you'd need different cams (at least) to use the higher rev range?
    - Mike | My Photos | '16 VW Golf R | '87 Mercedes-Benz 190E 2.3-16

  11. #36
    Regular Member alxdgr8 will become famous soon enough
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    Quote: Originally Posted by ExplosiveToaster View Post
    whaaaaat? So any ol' rabbit could have its redline bumped up that high? I assume you'd need different cams (at least) to use the higher rev range?
    Guess I'm slightly off, went back and checked my research. The stock cams get pretty anemic after 7k or so, but they can rev safely to just under 8k. Throw some springs in and you're good to 8.5k+. There aren't any cams out yet, but they are under development. They're expected to make power up to 8.5-9k.
    -Alex @vexartmedia-
    '03 Audi S8 (Avus/Oxblood - DD)
    '92 Porsche 968 (VW 07k 2.5T swap in the works) --- '86 Audi Coupe GT (2.3L 20v swap) ---'83 Audi UrQuattro (2.2L 20vt swap in progress)

  12. #37
    Normal Member ExplosiveToaster will become famous soon enough ExplosiveToaster's Avatar
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    Quote: Originally Posted by alxdgr8 View Post
    Guess I'm slightly off, went back and checked my research. The stock cams get pretty anemic after 7k or so, but they can rev safely to just under 8k. Throw some springs in and you're good to 8.5k+. There aren't any cams out yet, but they are under development. They're expected to make power up to 8.5-9k.
    Dang. That makes a really tempting swap if I wasn't so deep into rebuilding the 16v
    - Mike | My Photos | '16 VW Golf R | '87 Mercedes-Benz 190E 2.3-16

  13. #38
    Regular Member benny_mech will become famous soon enough
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    Your Porsche needs a "Powered by Volkswagen" sticker! Some Porsche purists heads are about to 'splode.
    “Religion is a defense against the experience of God.”
    — C.G. Jung

  14. #39
    Regular Member alxdgr8 will become famous soon enough
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    Had some free time after work yesterday so I threw the engine on a hoist and set it in the bay. It's just the engine sitting on top of the crossmember/steering rack with the stock oil pan. So yes, it is sitting a little tall and it's sitting straight up. Audi tilted there engines something like 10-12* so I might do that, we'll see. The Iroz Audi mounts do this.

    Sitting on top of the rack, plenty of clearance for the steering shaft on the side:


    Lots of room for manifolds! The C2 manifold still probably wouldn't work, or at least you wouldn't have much room for a downpipe. I'll probably have the manifold come forward and place the turbo in front of the strut tower. Depends on the how much room I have for the downpipe which will probably be 3-3.5"


    The crossmember/steering rack sit quite a bit more forward than the Audi application so the Iroz oil pan might not work, or might need modified. I'm afraid the sump might be right where the steering rack is. The engine might end up coming a little further forward though, I won't be sure until I get the torque tube and bellhousing back in the car.



    As you can see, you drop the engine a lot with the modified pan:
    Stock:

    Iroz Pan:


    Depending on the sump clearance, it might be an option to modify the pan and drop the subframe a bit (and line-bore new control arm mounts). Hopefully it doesn't come to that option. A manual steering rack will gain me a little bit of room too.

    Some other good new, the chain housing clears the brake booster with no problems. Even more clearance when you til the engine and drop it lower.



    And lastly, TONS of room up front! Enought for a nice thick radiator with fan/cowling and FMIC with even more room in the nose for oil cooler/etc.
    -Alex @vexartmedia-
    '03 Audi S8 (Avus/Oxblood - DD)
    '92 Porsche 968 (VW 07k 2.5T swap in the works) --- '86 Audi Coupe GT (2.3L 20v swap) ---'83 Audi UrQuattro (2.2L 20vt swap in progress)

  15. #40
    Regular Member alxdgr8 will become famous soon enough
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    In a AWD Rabbit with a Precision 6765, 811awhp

    2007 Vw Rabbit 2.5t - YouTube

    AWD Turbo VW Rabbit First Warmup Lap - YouTube

    Reposting the low-boost 07K dyno plot vs one of a 2.9L 24v VR6 with a similar turbo at the same boost and they are basically identical. The 07K makes the same horsepower/torque/spool at the same amount of boost with 0.4L less and is a good 100lbs lighter than the VR6 (and cheaper).



    -Alex @vexartmedia-
    '03 Audi S8 (Avus/Oxblood - DD)
    '92 Porsche 968 (VW 07k 2.5T swap in the works) --- '86 Audi Coupe GT (2.3L 20v swap) ---'83 Audi UrQuattro (2.2L 20vt swap in progress)

  16. #41
    holy...

    I knew those 2.5's would be able to do something awesome. It's a shame they haven't been tapped for much
    tell all of your local car enthusiast friends where the best place is to meet other local enthusiasts!
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  17. #42
    Regular Member alxdgr8 will become famous soon enough
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    Not much to report, but...
    Scored a forged early crank for $150 shipped off of ebay. I'll need to back-date the timing chain setup (which will cost about $500 for OEM parts), but this will save me from having to buy a $1200 TT-RS crank and allow me to still run my low-mileage newer block.

    10688229_10104748643098098_8869868516797190794_o by alxdgr8, on Flickr
    -Alex @vexartmedia-
    '03 Audi S8 (Avus/Oxblood - DD)
    '92 Porsche 968 (VW 07k 2.5T swap in the works) --- '86 Audi Coupe GT (2.3L 20v swap) ---'83 Audi UrQuattro (2.2L 20vt swap in progress)

  18. #43
    nice... is that new or used?

    n/m.. guess it looks used?
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  19. #44
    Regular Member V8-190e is on a distinguished road V8-190e's Avatar
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    Alex,

    Check out these pics of my friends 944.... or what used to be a 944!

    This is going to be a very serious track car - It has a 700hp nationwide series Nascar V8 in it now.

    Attachment 438

    Attachment 436

    Attachment 437

    Pierre

  20. #45
    Regular Member alxdgr8 will become famous soon enough
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    Quote: Originally Posted by V8-190e View Post
    Alex,

    Check out these pics of my friends 944.... or what used to be a 944!

    This is going to be a very serious track car - It has a 700hp nationwide series Nascar V8 in it now.

    Attachment 438

    Attachment 436

    Attachment 437

    Pierre
    Nice! Definitely not much Porsche left!
    -Alex @vexartmedia-
    '03 Audi S8 (Avus/Oxblood - DD)
    '92 Porsche 968 (VW 07k 2.5T swap in the works) --- '86 Audi Coupe GT (2.3L 20v swap) ---'83 Audi UrQuattro (2.2L 20vt swap in progress)

  21. #46
    Regular Member alxdgr8 will become famous soon enough
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    Finally picked up a 931 bellhousing.

    IMG_20150717_210930296 by Vex Art, on Flickr

    Sadly, it looks like the 931 bellhousing, despite being used on an Audi I4 has the I5 bellhousing pattern (along with sharing the lower 2 944 bellhousing botls). This doesn't really help since the 07K uses the VW I4 pattern. They only have 1 bolt in common.

    931 pattern bolts up perfectly to the 'vintage' I5.

    IMG_20150718_200259661 by Vex Art, on Flickr

    01E bellhousing (modified to fit 07K; two bolt holes at the top need trimmed off) on top of the 944 bellhousing. Red are the VW I4/07K bolts, black are the vintage I5 bolts. The lower 944 bellhousing bolts share the vintage I5 bolts. A large portion of the upper 944 bellhousing would need to be removed. Two of the 07K bolts could possibly be added to the 944 bellhousing by drilling holes and/or adding welding on a small amount of material to the bellhousing.

    IMG_20150718_231906658 by Vex Art, on Flickr

    The 01E bellhousing template mounted on the 07K engine. The red shows the 07K bolts, and yellow shows the 931/I5 bolts. Only one bolt is shared.

    IMG_20150718_205425310 by Vex Art, on Flickr

    I think it would be possible to add at least two more shared bolts to the 931 bellhousing pretty easily. The 07K red hole could easily be drilled, there is a nice flat spot on the bellhousing for it.

    IMG_20150718_231546048 by Vex Art, on Flickr

    The other one would require a small tab to be welded to the 931 bellhousing. This would give 3 matching bolts. I'd want to find at least one more.

    IMG_20150718_231558430 by Vex Art, on Flickr

    One ear on the 931 bellhousing would need to be removed (much like the 01E) to clear the 07K timing chain cover. But not nearly as much material as the 944 bellhousing would need.

    I'm going to order an OEM 01E spacer to help do some more planning. I think both the 944 and 931 bellhousing would take the same amount of work to make work with the 07K. The 944 would require a lot more trimming and then welding to 're-enclose' the bellhousing. The 931 would require slight modifications and no welding to 're-enclose'. An adapter plate might be the best route and would probably work better with the 931 bellhousing. I need to get an 07K clutch/flywheel so I can figure out stack heights and see if I can even run a spacer/adapter plate.

    Progress will continue to be slow, the 968 is at the bottom of the list of many projects...
    -Alex @vexartmedia-
    '03 Audi S8 (Avus/Oxblood - DD)
    '92 Porsche 968 (VW 07k 2.5T swap in the works) --- '86 Audi Coupe GT (2.3L 20v swap) ---'83 Audi UrQuattro (2.2L 20vt swap in progress)

  22. #47
    Regular Member alxdgr8 will become famous soon enough
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    Broke out my 3D scanner for the first time in a long time and scanned the rear of my 07K. Then built a crude model of an 012 bellhousing (since that's what I had a drawing for and it's basically an 01E).
    You can see here why the 01E has to be modified to fit the timing cover and you can see bolt holes that line up (marked in red). I missed some holes on my wood mockup since some of them you can't practically fit a drill bit through the backside.

    07K_Interference by Vex Art, on Flickr

    Next step is to order an 01E spacer. I'm going to mock it up and see if it could be welded to a modified 944 bellhousing to be used as an adapter.

    -Alex @vexartmedia-
    '03 Audi S8 (Avus/Oxblood - DD)
    '92 Porsche 968 (VW 07k 2.5T swap in the works) --- '86 Audi Coupe GT (2.3L 20v swap) ---'83 Audi UrQuattro (2.2L 20vt swap in progress)

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