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Thread: No spark or fuel

  1. #1
    Regular Member DowNnOutDubin is on a distinguished road DowNnOutDubin's Avatar
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    No spark or fuel

    I was driving along and my engine stalls without any warning. I tried to turn it back over and wouldn't fire. So I got it towed home and been diagnosing ever since.

    I first checked for both spark and fuel. The fuel pump isn't coming on and I'm not getting any spark. So I checked all the fuses and tested the fuel pump relay and everything checked out good. Next step I did was jump the fuel pump at the relay box to verify it works and it does. I have a buddy with a spare ABA sitting around some I grabbed a few parts. I tested his ECU to make sure that wasn't the issue. Next I did a resistance test on the crank positioning sensor and found it's out of tolerance. I picked up a new one and tested the tolerance before installing, everything checked via Bentley specs so I installed it and still no start. Next I used the buddies distributor since the cam/hall sensor in located there. Swapped it out and still nothing. I also tested his coil pack on my car just for giggles and nothing.

    I'm at a loss now on what to try. Currently I just have the freeware of vag-com and a cheap ebay OBD-II to USB cable. So I can only read the fault codes.

  2. #2
    make car go faster guy Rabbit 16v is a jewel in the rough Rabbit 16v is a jewel in the rough Rabbit 16v is a jewel in the rough Rabbit 16v's Avatar
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    Do you have any fault codes?
    What kind of car are you working on?

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    Regular Member DowNnOutDubin is on a distinguished road DowNnOutDubin's Avatar
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    It's a 89 mk2 with a aba


    16725/P0341/000833 - Camshaft Position Sensor (G40): Implausible Signal


    16705/P0321/000801 - Engine Speed Sensor (G28): Implausible Signal
    (of course the engine wasn't running when I scanned)


    17908 - P1500 - Fuel Pump Relay Circ. Electrical Malfunction
    (fuse was just fine)

  4. #4
    make car go faster guy Rabbit 16v is a jewel in the rough Rabbit 16v is a jewel in the rough Rabbit 16v is a jewel in the rough Rabbit 16v's Avatar
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    FPR is likely not the issue. What year is the swap from? If its OBD1 then the crank pos sensor code is normal. Does the car have CE2?

  5. #5
    Regular Member DowNnOutDubin is on a distinguished road DowNnOutDubin's Avatar
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    Quote: Originally Posted by Rabbit 16v View Post
    FPR is likely not the issue. What year is the swap from? If its OBD1 then the crank pos sensor code is normal. Does the car have CE2?
    I believe the motor is a 97-98. Everything is CE2 now and believe a ABA harness was used.

  6. #6
    make car go faster guy Rabbit 16v is a jewel in the rough Rabbit 16v is a jewel in the rough Rabbit 16v is a jewel in the rough Rabbit 16v's Avatar
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    We need to determine if the swap is OBD1. Although the engine itself might be an OBD2, we really need to know for certain if the management is OBD2. A pic of the throttle body will help immensely. The crank pos code is key here as on an ODB1 car, it will give this code and that is normal. On an OBD2 car, this code is not normal.

  7. #7
    Regular Member DowNnOutDubin is on a distinguished road DowNnOutDubin's Avatar
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    What part of the throttle body do you need to see? It's flipped because I have a mk4 intake mani on it. I'm like 90% sure it's OBDII.

  8. #8
    make car go faster guy Rabbit 16v is a jewel in the rough Rabbit 16v is a jewel in the rough Rabbit 16v is a jewel in the rough Rabbit 16v's Avatar
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    A general pic of it would help. i dont need a macro shot. Hell, you could take a pic of the entire engine bay and I could know

  9. #9
    Regular Member DowNnOutDubin is on a distinguished road DowNnOutDubin's Avatar
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    Well I know the only pic I have wont work.. That's why I asked.


  10. #10
    Normal Member AlexPirate will become famous soon enough
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    Crank Sensor gets my vote.
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  11. #11
    Regular Member DowNnOutDubin is on a distinguished road DowNnOutDubin's Avatar
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    Quote: Originally Posted by AlexPirate View Post
    Crank Sensor gets my vote.
    I've already replaced it with a new one.

  12. #12
    Normal Member AlexPirate will become famous soon enough
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    Quote: Originally Posted by DowNnOutDubin View Post
    I've already replaced it with a new one.
    interesting
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  13. #13
    Regular Member DowNnOutDubin is on a distinguished road DowNnOutDubin's Avatar
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    Its a OBD 2

  14. #14
    Normal Member AlexPirate will become famous soon enough
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    my next guess would be ignition switch, but im no expert, I'll leave that to Chris.
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    make car go faster guy Rabbit 16v is a jewel in the rough Rabbit 16v is a jewel in the rough Rabbit 16v is a jewel in the rough Rabbit 16v's Avatar
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    Yarr, methinks the Pirate is on to something! If he be wrong, walk the plank!

    er, yes, you could have a bad crank pos sensor (even if its new) or a bad ign switch. Make sure when cranking it that the idiot lights on the dash are illuminated. If they are not, you may need to wiggle it a bit and then hopefully started. Also, you can do an easy test of the ECU and the crank pos sensor by cranking it and see if the tach needle slightly rises. This will tell you that the tach signal from the ECU is working and hence the crank pos sensor is doing its job.

  16. #16
    Regular Member DowNnOutDubin is on a distinguished road DowNnOutDubin's Avatar
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    Well I did do a tolerance test on the CPS before I installed it. I don't think the ecu controls the tach, the car doesn't have a rev limiter and the tech gets its signal directly from the coil from my understanding. Ill still give it a shot though. I might try the ignition switch next, but seems odd it would just shut right off like that if that's the issue. I only have one other key on my key ring, so its not like I had a ton of keys swinging around when it stalled on me. Also the idiot lights do come on.

    I had a buddy suggest testing the load reduction relay.

  17. #17
    Normal Member AlexPirate will become famous soon enough
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    if your tach is actually connected directly to the coil then you should see the needle of the tach move up slightly while cranking, if it doesn't then it could be that your ECU is not getting power while cranking Test:Try to jumper the starter with the key in ACC position and have someone watch the tach, if there is still no movement of the tach and you are still able to connect to the ECU via VAG-COM, then the problem is either the Crank Position sensor or a problem with the ECU itself.
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  18. #18
    make car go faster guy Rabbit 16v is a jewel in the rough Rabbit 16v is a jewel in the rough Rabbit 16v is a jewel in the rough Rabbit 16v's Avatar
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    If it was wired correctly, the tach signal is fed from the ecu and not the tach. That isnt to say that its not possible that someone tapped the coil for a tach signal though. I just double checked the Bentley as I realized I might have been thinking of a MKIV.

    Being a VW ignition switch is usually what kills them regardless of how many key you have on the ring.

    The load reduction relay suggestion is right out. The load reduction relay only controls the headlights, blower motor and wipers. It has no relation to the ECU or engine electronics.

    Of course all of this is under the premise that the swap was done correctly and not hacked into the car.

  19. #19
    Regular Member DowNnOutDubin is on a distinguished road DowNnOutDubin's Avatar
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    Well I know he followed the mk2 ABA swap thread. He's done quite a few but this was the first. I just didn't do the wiring myself so I'm not 100% what was done. I know there is a wire going to the coil pack though and if it's pulled the tach doesn't work.

    I made a video of me trying to crank it over.. I think it proves that it is sensor related. My battery is about dead from cranking and not running, so I have it hooked up to a battery charger. Well I think once the volts drops enough on the ECU it starts getting some spark and fuel

    I'm mad I tossed out the receipt for the CPS sensor. I was assuming since the tolerance checked out it'd be good to go. What are you guys thinking it is now?

    BTW it's just backfiring here
    Last edited by DowNnOutDubin; 2012.07.10 at 17:50 PM.

  20. #20
    make car go faster guy Rabbit 16v is a jewel in the rough Rabbit 16v is a jewel in the rough Rabbit 16v is a jewel in the rough Rabbit 16v's Avatar
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    sounded to me like it almost started. scary question here, but is the cam/crank timing correct?

  21. #21
    Regular Member DowNnOutDubin is on a distinguished road DowNnOutDubin's Avatar
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    Everything is dead on. It doesn't do that unless the battery is just about out of juice.. If I have it on the charger on battery for awhile and it has enough cranking amps it will only do what you heard on the first and second cranks. Quite odd really. I start smelling gas as well when it's about dead too.
    Last edited by DowNnOutDubin; 2012.07.10 at 19:57 PM.

  22. #22
    make car go faster guy Rabbit 16v is a jewel in the rough Rabbit 16v is a jewel in the rough Rabbit 16v is a jewel in the rough Rabbit 16v's Avatar
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    can you take another video after the battery is charged?

  23. #23
    make car go faster guy Rabbit 16v is a jewel in the rough Rabbit 16v is a jewel in the rough Rabbit 16v is a jewel in the rough Rabbit 16v's Avatar
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    Also, have you verified cam/crank timing by both the flywheel AND the crank pulley?

  24. #24
    Regular Member DowNnOutDubin is on a distinguished road DowNnOutDubin's Avatar
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    Quote: Originally Posted by Rabbit 16v View Post
    Also, have you verified cam/crank timing by both the flywheel AND the crank pulley?
    Everything but the flywheel.. It's a pain to see down in the inspection plate. What about making sure cyl#1 is TDC instead along with the distributor?

  25. #25
    make car go faster guy Rabbit 16v is a jewel in the rough Rabbit 16v is a jewel in the rough Rabbit 16v is a jewel in the rough Rabbit 16v's Avatar
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    I dont exactly understand your question. could you clarify?

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