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Thread: No spark or fuel

  1. #26
    Regular Member DowNnOutDubin is on a distinguished road DowNnOutDubin's Avatar
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    I popped my inspection cap and couldn't really see any good detail down there.. I'll poke around more later and see if I can get the part that holds the cap off as well. Otherwise, I was asking if I could just pull the spark plug on cyl #1 and make sure it's top (TDC) in place of using the flywheel mark.

    How much easier would this be if I just bought vag-com? I'm kind of swaying towards that idea. Also I wouldn't mind clearing the ECU and starting from a fresh state.
    Last edited by DowNnOutDubin; 2012.07.11 at 23:00 PM.

  2. #27
    Regular Member DowNnOutDubin is on a distinguished road DowNnOutDubin's Avatar
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    Okay I uploaded some video's to answer some of your questions. I think you can't see the transmission marks in the inspection hole because it's a mk2 trans on a ABA. However I did pull cyl #1's spark plug and the cylinder is at it's very most high point.

    Timing is aligned (just so you guys can stop putting that in question)..


    Full battery charge
    Last edited by DowNnOutDubin; 2012.07.11 at 22:08 PM.

  3. #28
    make car go faster guy Rabbit 16v is a jewel in the rough Rabbit 16v is a jewel in the rough Rabbit 16v is a jewel in the rough Rabbit 16v's Avatar
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    Damn, I almost could not ask for better video. The one thing that would be nice just to confirm is if you could remove the green plastic cover jobbie on the bellhousing to verify the timing mark. I am pretty sure its correct from the position of the bolt head for the flywheel, but it would be nice to see for certain.

    on the subject of purchasing the VCDS software, I would say go for it if you have multiple VWAG cars and intend to stick to that line. It is well worth it and in this instance it will help immensely to diagnose. Can your freeware give an ECU part number? We can determine OBD1 or 2 from that. Also, can you take a pic of the fusebox? doesnt need to be detailed, just the front is fine and that will give us an idea if its CE1 or CE2. I suspect if it is CE2 then we can sorta assume that the wiring is not grafted.

  4. #29
    Regular Member DowNnOutDubin is on a distinguished road DowNnOutDubin's Avatar
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    The fuse box is CE2 and everything is plugged in nicely in the back of the fuse box. I just wasn't wanting to pick at the plastic cover and get dirt inside (the cap was removed in the video). From my understanding the flywheel mark signifies the #1 cyl being at it top utmost point. I know the car is timed correctly, I can tell nothing slipped from when it died on me. I'm fairly mechanical... I've just never dabbled into electrical much.


    This is the info vagcom gave me.

    Address 01: Engine Labels: 037-906-259.LBL
    Controller: 037 906 259 R
    Component: MOTRONIC M5.9 HS V01
    Last edited by DowNnOutDubin; 2012.07.11 at 22:26 PM.

  5. #30
    Regular Member DowNnOutDubin is on a distinguished road DowNnOutDubin's Avatar
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    BTW thanks for your help so far Rabbit 16v

    I'm having a hunch it's something to do with the CPS at the point. Although I'm not sure how the tach was wired up.

  6. #31
    Normal Member AlexPirate will become famous soon enough
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    From your first video it sounds like you are dropping enough voltage to negate the bad sensor output which is causing it to fire towards the end.
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  7. #32
    make car go faster guy Rabbit 16v is a jewel in the rough Rabbit 16v is a jewel in the rough Rabbit 16v is a jewel in the rough Rabbit 16v's Avatar
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    A quick google search shows that your ecu is likely OBD2. With that in mind, I would lean toward the CPS. Mr. Pirate is on par with his suggestion of low voltage causing anomalies with firing. Its not unheard of that a new part can be faulty. I recently dealt with this on a 2002 EV. It had a brand new sensor from the dealer in it, and it was faulty.

  8. #33
    Regular Member DowNnOutDubin is on a distinguished road DowNnOutDubin's Avatar
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    So I'm testing fuses with a test light instead of visual look at them. With the key on the "on" position should I have voltage on the fuel pump fuse?

  9. #34
    make car go faster guy Rabbit 16v is a jewel in the rough Rabbit 16v is a jewel in the rough Rabbit 16v is a jewel in the rough Rabbit 16v's Avatar
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    No. The ECU will give a ground signal to the FPR when it sees an ignition event. It should turn on for 2 seconds after you turn the key from the 'off' position to the 'on' position. This is the only time that the FPR should be energized with the car not running or engine not rotating (starter motor). Some earlier cars will only turn the FP on when it sees input activity from the crank pos sensor.

    This is a safetey feature so that if you crash the car, the pump does not continue to cover the car and possibly you in flammable liquids should the engine stop running.

  10. #35
    Regular Member DowNnOutDubin is on a distinguished road DowNnOutDubin's Avatar
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    This is another thing I figure I should throw out there. When I did the carpeting I moved the wiring that went to the center console some and the wiring that comes from the back for all the electrical up there. Is there a possibly something from the fuse box came undone in the back to cause this? There are a few things unplugged, although since I didn't do the wiring I have no idea if it's supposed to be all plugged in. Still I don't see how driving along smoothly could cause that. I had carpeting in for about a week or two before this happened.

  11. #36
    make car go faster guy Rabbit 16v is a jewel in the rough Rabbit 16v is a jewel in the rough Rabbit 16v is a jewel in the rough Rabbit 16v's Avatar
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    Not likely. I mean I guess its possible that some short might occur going to the fuel pump wiring causing some weird anomaly, but even if the fuel pump is disconnected, it still should generate spark.

  12. #37
    Regular Member DowNnOutDubin is on a distinguished road DowNnOutDubin's Avatar
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    Replaced CPS no start.. Think I'll be buying vag-com.
    Last edited by DowNnOutDubin; 2012.07.15 at 21:58 PM.

  13. #38
    Regular Member DowNnOutDubin is on a distinguished road DowNnOutDubin's Avatar
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    Cleared codes and no start. Would a Bentley give you specs on how to test wiring? What should I be looking for on vag-com?

    I also measured if there was any voltage going to the CPS with the key on, which there is.
    Last edited by DowNnOutDubin; 2012.07.15 at 21:59 PM.

  14. #39
    Normal Member AlexPirate will become famous soon enough
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    Know anyone with a Known Good ECU? That would be my next move.
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  15. #40
    make car go faster guy Rabbit 16v is a jewel in the rough Rabbit 16v is a jewel in the rough Rabbit 16v is a jewel in the rough Rabbit 16v's Avatar
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    After you tried to start it, did any codes come back? Also, in one of the lower measuring blocks (1-4) should be an RPM field. See if you are getting an RPM signal when cranking.

  16. #41
    Regular Member DowNnOutDubin is on a distinguished road DowNnOutDubin's Avatar
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    Engine speed sensor code only came back so far. Measuring block #2 has a RPM engine speed, which I'm getting no data when I'm trying to crank. I got my hands on a Bentley and after checking the wiring schematics, I did a resistance test on the CPS sensor plug on the red wire and pin #67 to the ECU harness I'm getting no continuity. However I'm getting it continuity the green wire on the CPS plug to pin #68 to the ECU. It's getting 1.4v which I hear is normal. The black and the green carry the voltage.

    I'm doing some other testing with other sensors just because I've never gone to this extent of testing wire and some come up with no continuity :-\ I'd like to think I'm doing this all correctly
    Last edited by DowNnOutDubin; 2012.07.22 at 17:14 PM. Reason: There were no codes when I first wrote this, now there is one.

  17. #42
    make car go faster guy Rabbit 16v is a jewel in the rough Rabbit 16v is a jewel in the rough Rabbit 16v is a jewel in the rough Rabbit 16v's Avatar
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    Sounds like you are getting close. Pin 67 being open circuit between the connector and the ecu is the culprit. Have you tried pulling back the boot at the 3 wire connector to see if the wire has broken? Looks like you are going to need to follow that wire until you find the break.

  18. #43
    Regular Member DowNnOutDubin is on a distinguished road DowNnOutDubin's Avatar
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    It looks fine in the plug. I tired moving that wire around to get continuity, which didn't help. It just goes into the wire loom to the ecu, no signs of breakage.
    Last edited by DowNnOutDubin; 2012.07.23 at 10:58 AM.

  19. #44
    make car go faster guy Rabbit 16v is a jewel in the rough Rabbit 16v is a jewel in the rough Rabbit 16v is a jewel in the rough Rabbit 16v's Avatar
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    1. Do you have continuity between pin 1 at the connector and pin 67 at the ecu?


    2. Do you have continuity between pin 2 at the connector and pin 68 at the ecu?

  20. #45
    Regular Member DowNnOutDubin is on a distinguished road DowNnOutDubin's Avatar
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    Pin 67 at the ECU has no continuity (red wire at the CPS plug)
    Pin 68 does (green wire)

  21. #46
    make car go faster guy Rabbit 16v is a jewel in the rough Rabbit 16v is a jewel in the rough Rabbit 16v is a jewel in the rough Rabbit 16v's Avatar
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    time to hunt down the red wire. it is broken somewhere along the way.

  22. #47
    Regular Member DowNnOutDubin is on a distinguished road DowNnOutDubin's Avatar
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    It runs, thanks for the help


  23. #48
    make car go faster guy Rabbit 16v is a jewel in the rough Rabbit 16v is a jewel in the rough Rabbit 16v is a jewel in the rough Rabbit 16v's Avatar
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    Yay!! I would fix those other two wires as well

  24. #49
    chris ****ing wins. every time.
    bitches catchin feelings like will i am

  25. #50
    Quote: Originally Posted by Rabbit 16v View Post
    I would fix those other two wires as well
    seriously!
    tell all of your local car enthusiast friends where the best place is to meet other local enthusiasts!
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