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Thread: My 190E 2.3-16

  1. #76
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  2. #77
    Normal Member ExplosiveToaster will become famous soon enough ExplosiveToaster's Avatar
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    A little update on the progress: Block and crank still at the shop, I'll probably stop by on the way to work this week. Bought some wire brushes and started cleaning off the oil pan and the engine bay. Firstly I'm getting all the little metal shavings out, and secondly I'm getting decades of grime off the thing. I'm contemplating respraying the engine bay while I have the chance, though the factory paint seems to have held up underneath all the oil/road crap.
    - Mike | My Photos | '16 VW Golf R | '87 Mercedes-Benz 190E 2.3-16

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    Normal Member AlexPirate will become famous soon enough
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    Quote: Originally Posted by ExplosiveToaster View Post
    A little update on the progress: Block and crank still at the shop, I'll probably stop by on the way to work this week. Bought some wire brushes and started cleaning off the oil pan and the engine bay. Firstly I'm getting all the little metal shavings out, and secondly I'm getting decades of grime off the thing. I'm contemplating respraying the engine bay while I have the chance, though the factory paint seems to have held up underneath all the oil/road crap.
    Do it while you're in there, you will thank yourself later on.
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  4. #79
    Normal Member ExplosiveToaster will become famous soon enough ExplosiveToaster's Avatar
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    SLS hard lines and accumulators are out of the car, and I finally unbolted the engine mounts from the cross brace. There's a little bit of SLS tubing left over that I will take care of when it comes time to redo all the subframe bushings, and take the diff out to be cleaned/inspected...that thing is absolutely covered in crud. Besides that, a little more cleaning inside the engine bay. I should really stop procrastinating and contact someone to get the AC system evacuated so I can finally take that all out as well.
    - Mike | My Photos | '16 VW Golf R | '87 Mercedes-Benz 190E 2.3-16

  5. #80
    cleaning cars up is great..

    is this your first time cleaning up and rebuilding a car like this?
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  6. #81
    Normal Member ExplosiveToaster will become famous soon enough ExplosiveToaster's Avatar
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    Yup, it is. I'm going to need more wire brushes...I've figured that out pretty quickly . Ideally I'd pressure wash it, but my garage is literally a small garage with electricity, nothing else. It's actually great that the 190 is such a small car, it's a bit of a squeeze around the sides but there's enough room to work.

    So one thing that's in the back of my head that I really don't need to think about until AFTER the engine is done:
    Should I pay to get the car towed to a paint shop while it's a rolling chassis with an interior or can the outside paint be taken care of once the car is back together? I plan on spraying the engine bay myself.
    - Mike | My Photos | '16 VW Golf R | '87 Mercedes-Benz 190E 2.3-16

  7. #82
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    Could be done at either stage... Personally I would do all the mechanical work first, then paint the car. That way in your narrow space, incase you rub up against it you don't scratch new paint.. Or get oil in it, etc..

  8. #83
    Normal Member ExplosiveToaster will become famous soon enough ExplosiveToaster's Avatar
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    OK, that's what I was thinking...right now the car has a protective coating so to speak

    In other news, I probably need to track down a new harmonic balancer, mine's pretty beat up around the edges. Terry @ Autosport and I talked about the crank and block last week, he says he can straighten it, but said he'd let me know if it starts to get difficult. My concern is that the crank went through a lot of stress to bend, and is going through more stress to bend back, so I'm keeping an eye out for cranks as a backup plan. Block's just fine though, he's going to bore it out to first repair and line hone it.
    Last edited by ExplosiveToaster; 2013.11.14 at 23:09 PM.
    - Mike | My Photos | '16 VW Golf R | '87 Mercedes-Benz 190E 2.3-16

  9. #84
    Regular Member benny_mech will become famous soon enough
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    Make sure you can get a hold of the pistons to match that bore. On my VR6, it was easier to find 2nd overbore pistons.
    “Right now, it's like this.”
    ― Ajahn Sumedho

  10. #85
    Normal Member ExplosiveToaster will become famous soon enough ExplosiveToaster's Avatar
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    Because these motors are rare, I'm planning on custom ordering forged internals (when back together, it'll be redlining around 7000rpm...and it'll also see boost later in its life). The guys at Autosport are also going to look around and come up with their own suggestions for internals. There is one interesting source I can use for conrods, though: NASCAR V8 engines. 7k RPM is the low end of what those motors typically see (redline at 10k!), and used sets on eBay are under $200. (link) Some of the folks on the 190 forum have used these in their builds. I guess the question is, if those motors are designed for an 800-mile lifespan, what does 1 NASCAR mile translate into trackday miles?

    Spent some time cleaning up my old starter. I picked up a spare for cheap, and I'll probably have both inspected and use/rebuild the better one.


    I also took the time to measure the valve clearances on the cylinder head, remove the camshafts and tappets, and checked the shim sizes. I'm thinking it might be good to refresh the head, or at the very least take it all apart and have it tank cleaned. I noticed there's a lot of white residue in the water jacket, and deposits on the valve faces. I'm making sure all the old oil that's full of metal is removed from the motor so there's no debris scratching up the rebuilt engine.
    Last edited by ExplosiveToaster; 2013.11.17 at 12:35 PM.
    - Mike | My Photos | '16 VW Golf R | '87 Mercedes-Benz 190E 2.3-16

  11. #86
    how many miles does this engine have?
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  12. #87
    Normal Member ExplosiveToaster will become famous soon enough ExplosiveToaster's Avatar
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    A little over 205,000 miles. I think it deserves some parts to be refreshed on principle. Fortunately, the camshafts and cam sprockets look really good. Not having to replace the sprockets alone saves me more than a few hundred dollars. I'm thinking valves, springs, and seats. The tappets look fine, and I'll probably need to order some different shims when its all together to bring it all into spec.

    Now I just need to track down the 16v M102-specific MB valve spring compressor tool -_-
    - Mike | My Photos | '16 VW Golf R | '87 Mercedes-Benz 190E 2.3-16

  13. #88
    Regular Member benny_mech will become famous soon enough
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    I'd steer clear of any connecting rod that's been installed in a NASCAR. If the redline is 10k RPM, you can bet they're pushed to 9k+ for most of the race. There's no practical way to tell how much of the fatigue life has been used up. The teams replace them to avoid a grenaded motor.

    What's so special about the valve spring compressor? You can't use a generic one?
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  14. #89
    Normal Member ExplosiveToaster will become famous soon enough ExplosiveToaster's Avatar
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    That's my worry about those rods. I was curious about having a few destructively tested to see how strong they really are since I'd just have to match 4 out of the 8. That probably wouldn't say anything about how many times they can experience those stresses before failing, though.

    I did find a generic one on Amazon. I just need the overhead crossbar & lever style because the valve springs are surrounded by the casting. The MB compressor has a different foot for the 16v's valves, but hopefully the one that comes with the one I bought works, or I can figure out some way to make it work. The cheap $10 one at harbor freight probably won't work because it requires clearance around the valve spring to grab onto it.

    Either way, this one comes in at $90, and the official MB tool is over $300. Works for me.
    - Mike | My Photos | '16 VW Golf R | '87 Mercedes-Benz 190E 2.3-16

  15. #90
    Regular Member benny_mech will become famous soon enough
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    IIRC I had to turn down the OD of the spring compressor on the lathe at work for clearance. That may have been for the dirt bike though.
    “Right now, it's like this.”
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  16. #91
    Normal Member ExplosiveToaster will become famous soon enough ExplosiveToaster's Avatar
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    The latest in a series of photos of an increasingly empty engine bay:



    I checked the two valves and something came out, so I figured better safe than sorry and get someone to evacuate it. Turns out that was just residual pressure and it's all empty (& didn't charge me for coming out!), so tonight I got to work on that. Think I may try getting the front clip off this weekend.

    Also converted most of the garage lighting to LED since the Seattle Costco has super cheap bulbs.
    - Mike | My Photos | '16 VW Golf R | '87 Mercedes-Benz 190E 2.3-16

  17. #92
    what valves?
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  18. #93
    Normal Member ExplosiveToaster will become famous soon enough ExplosiveToaster's Avatar
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    Woops. The A/C high-side and low-side valves. On the tubing you don't see anymore
    - Mike | My Photos | '16 VW Golf R | '87 Mercedes-Benz 190E 2.3-16

  19. #94
    Normal Member ExplosiveToaster will become famous soon enough ExplosiveToaster's Avatar
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    Turns out the whole bumper comes off with just 6 nuts (or 5 nuts and a zip tie in my case). The radiator/hood support is welded in, so I'll just have to be careful of that when it comes time to drop in the rebuilt motor. Also finally got the shifter out (realized the surrounding wire bundles are ziptied to it), so I can disassemble and clean that up, get new bushings for it, and get the arms lengthened to shorten the throw a bit.

    Then I proceeded to make a mess of the wall and my hands trying to fill a duct pipe with Great Stuff. There's an old busted dryer duct fan at the top of the garage wall...just trying to plug it up so I can hold a little more heat inside.
    - Mike | My Photos | '16 VW Golf R | '87 Mercedes-Benz 190E 2.3-16

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    Regular Member benny_mech will become famous soon enough
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    Quote: Originally Posted by ExplosiveToaster View Post
    Then I proceeded to make a mess of the wall and my hands trying to fill a duct pipe with Great Stuff.
    I did the same thing, but inside my house, and in several places.
    “Right now, it's like this.”
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    Regular Member alxdgr8 will become famous soon enough
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    Quote: Originally Posted by benny_mech View Post
    I did the same thing, but inside my house, and in several places.
    Yeah, that shit is sticky!
    -Alex @vexartmedia-
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  22. #97
    Normal Member ExplosiveToaster will become famous soon enough ExplosiveToaster's Avatar
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    My hands still look like I have leprosy
    - Mike | My Photos | '16 VW Golf R | '87 Mercedes-Benz 190E 2.3-16

  23. #98
    Normal Member ExplosiveToaster will become famous soon enough ExplosiveToaster's Avatar
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    An update for the new year:
    - Autosport said they'd get to work on the crank & block last Friday. Haven't heard from them since but I'll be going in there with the oil pan and cylinder head next week so I'll ask about it.
    - Spent more time removing things from the bay and cleaning it. All that's left is the power steering box & links and the brake components, so I'll drain the brake fluid out and remove those things. Then comes another pass of cleaning to try and get the last of the grime out, a lot of masking things off, and then the sanding & painting can begin!

    Still need to get myself some proper bits for removing my wheel bolts, then I'll probably unhook the front LCAs so I can clean and paint their mount points. The paint in the engine bay is actually in great shape...there's only a dime-sized spot of surface rust under where the washer tank sat, but I want to take care of the white overspray from the previous paint job and make the bay black instead.

    Back on the topic of engines, since I'm rebuilding the motor for eventual boost I'm going to go a little nuts and get good forged internals custom made from Top End Performance (JE pistons and Pauter rods). They can make me any C/R I'd need so I have the chance to build the bottom end right from the start. The issue is, I'm not really sure what to pick. Stock is 9.7:1 and people have boosted their 16vs with this compression, so I think 9:1 would be safe but I feel like I'm just pulling that number out of my ass. If anyone has input or recommended books/resources I can look at, I'd appreciate it.

    I could always get 9.7:1 pistons to start and order a different set when it comes time for the boost...depends on how much I need to drop the C/R to achieve those glorious DTM-like power levels, since I still need the car to have SOME guts without a compressor on it!
    Last edited by ExplosiveToaster; 2014.01.10 at 18:52 PM.
    - Mike | My Photos | '16 VW Golf R | '87 Mercedes-Benz 190E 2.3-16

  24. #99
    Regular Member alxdgr8 will become famous soon enough
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    9:1 is generally a pretty good number for nearly any engine. Will give more headroom for more boost without being too much of a dog off boost and not require E85. I wouldn't go any lower than that, but you could possibly go higher. All depends on your power goals, but pump gas is most likely going to be your limiting factor.
    -Alex @vexartmedia-
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  25. #100
    Regular Member benny_mech will become famous soon enough
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    There are a lot of variables when it comes to CR and detonation. Some of it is in the design of the cylinder head itself. Sometimes things can be improved by removing sharp edges that cause hot spots, like removing the unused portion of the thread for the spark plugs. If you're going to pull it apart again before boost, you could dish the 9.7:1 pistons to drop the CR further.
    “Right now, it's like this.”
    ― Ajahn Sumedho

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