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Thread: My 190E 2.3-16

  1. #101
    Regular Member benny_mech will become famous soon enough
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    Quote: Originally Posted by alxdgr8 View Post
    Yeah, that shit is sticky!
    It should come with a warning label to let people know it expands to 3000 times its original volume. I had to trim excess all over the place!
    “Right now, it's like this.”
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  2. #102
    Normal Member ExplosiveToaster will become famous soon enough ExplosiveToaster's Avatar
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    Quote: Originally Posted by benny_mech View Post
    If you're going to pull it apart again before boost, you could dish the 9.7:1 pistons to drop the CR further.
    I'm starting to think this may be the way to go. I hunted around on the MB forums for examples of other 16v setups...European tuner Lotec offered a turbo 16v in the 80s that produced 300hp with a 9:1 ratio, but that was in the 80s and it still used the dizzy ignition and K-jet (link). Then I find someone on peachparts who is running stock internals and putting out nearly 400hp with EFI. Going to ask Top End how much the pistons can be dished after the fact.

    I'd prefer not to have to order a completely new set of pistons to lower the C/R, but I'm fine with pulling the pistons out to have them dished further.
    - Mike | My Photos | '16 VW Golf R | '87 Mercedes-Benz 190E 2.3-16

  3. #103
    Normal Member ExplosiveToaster will become famous soon enough ExplosiveToaster's Avatar
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    Well, pistons are ordered! Bit of a change of plan after talking with the owner of Top End on the phone...I brought up having the pistons dished after the fact and he convinced me not to follow that route. Wound up going with 96mm bore 9.7:1 pistons with gapless 2nd rings, and extended conrods of what I guess you'd call their "midrange" design. the next level up is a beefy rod intended for the looney end of big turbo projects (40psi, alcohol, etc.), but these will be fine to the 400hp range and that's good enough for me. I realized when it comes time to do boost stuff, I should really be taking it slow anyways and I'll cross the bridge of lower compression ratios if/when I come to it. I could probably find someone on the 'rev to buy the 9.7:1 pistons for a good discount anyways.

    In other news, Terry finished up the crankshaft and it looks great! The mains on the block were also honed so all we need are the pistons for the cylinders to be bored out and everything balanced. I also took the head in so they can check the valve guides and seats. I'm happy things are in motion now! There's still a lot left to do with the car but it'll be a huge milestone in the project to have the engine back in and mounted up. I also dropped off the transmission at another shop, so this is a good reminder for me to check in on that too

    EDIT: Even got the power steering box removed...just need to get the brake booster, ABS unit, and hard lines out of the way now.
    Last edited by ExplosiveToaster; 2014.01.13 at 22:01 PM.
    - Mike | My Photos | '16 VW Golf R | '87 Mercedes-Benz 190E 2.3-16

  4. #104
    Normal Member ExplosiveToaster will become famous soon enough ExplosiveToaster's Avatar
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    According to UPS, the pistons and rods will arrive early next week! Once Autosport has them Terry will bore out the cylinders and balance everything, and then the bottom end will be ready to come home. I'll hit it once more with degreaser to get the outside of the block nice and clean and then give it a coat of engine paint. I also got an 11lb flywheel (factory is 17lb) and a fuel rail designed to fit the factory intake manifold, which will be cut down so new runners and a plenum can be welded on.

    Today I took out the brake master cylinder and ABS unit and removed a few fittings from the engine bay, and started scuffing the paint on the passenger side and radiator support. I still need to remove the brake booster, just didn't feel like digging into the interior to unbolt it. I need to get some paint stripper for the radiator support to get the flaky white paint off. I also disassembled the shifter a while ago and brought the shift lever with me so I could replace the worn out rubber bushings with some solid Delrin ones I purchased from a 190rev member who sells them. I MacGyver'd together a bushing press using my bench vise and a large-headed bolt that happened to be just the right side to push on the bushing once the inner piece was broken off. Also cleaned up the linkage arms. If I have someone extend them an inch, it will reduce my forward-backward throws by about 50%.

    There's a lot to remove and clean up in the engine bay of these cars, but I'm nearly ready to scuff up the whole thing, mask it off, and then hit it with some Rustoleum satin black.
    - Mike | My Photos | '16 VW Golf R | '87 Mercedes-Benz 190E 2.3-16

  5. #105
    Normal Member ExplosiveToaster will become famous soon enough ExplosiveToaster's Avatar
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    And here's a bunch of pictures

    Pistons! Yay!








    And the new flywheel:


    I should (finally) have the parts back from Autosport at the end of the month. And then I can start putting the motor back together again!
    - Mike | My Photos | '16 VW Golf R | '87 Mercedes-Benz 190E 2.3-16

  6. #106
    Regular Member Helios is on a distinguished road Helios's Avatar
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    Oooh shineys!
    -Chris S.

    "If they ain't a little too wide, they ain't wide enough!"
    '76 Mk1 / '87 XR4Ti / '93.5 SLC / '94 SVT / '95 RS / '96 GTi

  7. #107
    Still subd.
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  8. #108
    Normal Member ExplosiveToaster will become famous soon enough ExplosiveToaster's Avatar
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    Second big surprise of the car: found out the transmission needs to be rebuilt! Would've found out months ago due to some ridiculous communications SNAFU, but I learned this today. Transmission needs new seals and bearings, and one of the hubs is broken. On the bright side, at least I'll have a fresh transmission when the car's back on the road. If it's the original transmission (which I think it is), it's had a good run so far. Still cheaper than a reman'd transmission from mbpartsworld!
    Last edited by ExplosiveToaster; 2014.02.05 at 21:24 PM.
    - Mike | My Photos | '16 VW Golf R | '87 Mercedes-Benz 190E 2.3-16

  9. #109
    Sounds like this would have been a good candidate for (pause for dramatic effect) and LSx conversion. ._____.
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  10. #110
    Normal Member ExplosiveToaster will become famous soon enough ExplosiveToaster's Avatar
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    Or that turbo'd Audi 5 swap from the car that dashed MB's rally dreams Actually someone on the rev has done an LS conversion on one of these...and right now there's someone else working on a Toyota V8 swap too.

    It'll be worth it in the end...just gotta keep telling myself that I think at this point after learning about what went into these cars, I really want to see what it can do once you sprinkle in some more modern technology.
    - Mike | My Photos | '16 VW Golf R | '87 Mercedes-Benz 190E 2.3-16

  11. #111
    It'll certainly be worth it. But a thread like this always needs talk of an LS. I think it's a law of some sort.
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  12. #112
    Normal Member ExplosiveToaster will become famous soon enough ExplosiveToaster's Avatar
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    Quote: Originally Posted by Twelvizm View Post
    It'll certainly be worth it. But a thread like this always needs talk of an LS. I think it's a law of some sort.
    I agree, a friend of mine bought a Mk4 Jetta wagon and the first thing I said was "drop an LS in it"
    - Mike | My Photos | '16 VW Golf R | '87 Mercedes-Benz 190E 2.3-16

  13. #113
    Normal Member ExplosiveToaster will become famous soon enough ExplosiveToaster's Avatar
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    Since what I thought was a solid drivetrain hasn't turned out to be as solid as I thought (OK, motor's on me)...I'm heading up to Bellingham this weekend to pick up a second LSD out of an '86 16v along with a set of axles. Just to be safe, since the diff is now the only thing that hasn't required a rebuild yet He also has a storage unit full of 16v parts and is letting me peruse the collection, so who knows what else I'll come home with. He doesn't have a 16v harmonic balancer to replace my cracking one, but maybe I'll luck out and find a new hydraulic line for my clutch, as I broke mine when trying to loosen a stubborn fitting I have an 8v harmonic balancer that will fit my motor fine, but MB made the 16v balancer bigger to handle the higher revs.

    In other news I opened up the underside of the dash to remove the brake booster and had a chance to get in there with my shopvac. These cars are not at all big, but they're packed with stuff:


    Once I got the booster unbolted and disconnected from the brake pedal, I removed it and discovered this:


    I need to get my Dremel back from my friend's place, and then I'll wire brush underneath where the brake booster sat and hit it with some rust sealer. There's a couple other spots where the brush will help with stubborn grime, too

    I have to admit after digging through so much stuff while trying to clean up the bay for painting, I'm starting to feel a bit overwhelmed by the medusas of brittle black heatshink'd wires spilling from both corners of the engine bay. I played with electronics a lot in high school and college so I'm not worried about wiring up my new harnesses, but that also means my experience with wires in situations where they were more noticeably...labeled
    Last edited by ExplosiveToaster; 2014.02.13 at 23:41 PM.
    - Mike | My Photos | '16 VW Golf R | '87 Mercedes-Benz 190E 2.3-16

  14. #114
    Early 80's German cars are a labor of love.
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  15. #115
    Normal Member ExplosiveToaster will become famous soon enough ExplosiveToaster's Avatar
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    I had today off from work

    Knew I had a long weekend so I decided to get some work done I spent some time with the wiring and parts diagrams to acquaint myself with the different control units and relays and get an idea of what they look like. Then I was able to label some of the harnesses, remove (& label) relays and relay mounts.

    While clearing out the battery area I decided to clean up the rust to see how bad it really was:


    So, anyone know someone who's good at making patches? Happily this is from the engine bay to the wheel well so nobody will need to see it.

    And that's why I didn't bother removing all the wiring to paint all the way back

    Also, when I went to Bellingham on Saturday, I also came back with a new driver's door card, a larger W124 front sway bar, a 90s-style grille, and a strut tower brace.
    - Mike | My Photos | '16 VW Golf R | '87 Mercedes-Benz 190E 2.3-16

  16. #116
    You make me realize that I could be using my little ass garage much more effectively.
    I make pretty stuff
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  17. #117
    Normal Member ExplosiveToaster will become famous soon enough ExplosiveToaster's Avatar
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    Received an OEM head gasket kit and a new nylon washer for my shifter from Mercedes of South Atlanta (aka mbpartsworld.com). I'm going to Cleveland this weekend, but when I get back I can put the shifter back together and then clean off the brake components and steering box and get them mounted up again. Hopefully my engine will be done next week and I can get to work putting that back together! And if my luck is really good I'll hear good news about the transmission as well
    - Mike | My Photos | '16 VW Golf R | '87 Mercedes-Benz 190E 2.3-16

  18. #118
    President, MK2 Society trip permit has a spectacular aura about trip permit has a spectacular aura about trip permit's Avatar
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    I remember driving this car from Olympia to Lynnwood the day Charlie got it.

  19. #119
    Normal Member ExplosiveToaster will become famous soon enough ExplosiveToaster's Avatar
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    An update from my end... Autosport had some shop engines come in that bumped me down on the list, partly because I delayed getting the head work done while contemplating building a high-RPM head. I've heard some on 190rev say they just needed lighter retainers and different springs to rev to 8k (though the factory cams don't do anything up here), while others say the engine would need additional oil squirters and higher oil pressures, so I've decided to scale things back and re-use the factory valvetrain for now. When the time comes for new cams I can address the new springs & retainers myself.

    Engine bay is painted up and I've reinstalled the brake booster, ABS pump, and steering box, connected up the hard lines for the brakes, and reattached the steering rack. Transmission is waiting for its parts from Germany and the shop its at will rebuild it and get it back to me. All that's really left (besides getting the engine back together) is dropping the rear subframe to swap out the diff and axles, refresh the bushings, and replace the flex disks.

    I'm waiting on a new clutch line to replace the one I broke when removing the engine, and also found out my clutch master is leaking, so that'll need some investigation when I replace the line.

    Brakes are definitely in need of replacement, so after the drivetrain is all back together I'll get some new brakes on the car. I plan to swap in a 400E or 420E/500E setup as that gives me some good 4 pots up front

    As for the body...the original paint is smoke silver... I'd like to take an eraser wheel to the outer flaky paint job and see what condition the original paint is in. If it's in really good shape I'll see if I can just remove the white and rock smoke silver...otherwise if it needs to be resprayed I may just have it redone in white (with actual prep work this time). The car would look pretty good in white if I return what should be textured plastic to being textured plastic.
    - Mike | My Photos | '16 VW Golf R | '87 Mercedes-Benz 190E 2.3-16

  20. #120
    Normal Member ExplosiveToaster will become famous soon enough ExplosiveToaster's Avatar
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    It would look a little something like this:
    - Mike | My Photos | '16 VW Golf R | '87 Mercedes-Benz 190E 2.3-16

  21. #121
    Normal Member ExplosiveToaster will become famous soon enough ExplosiveToaster's Avatar
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    Terry finished up the bottom end on Friday, and should have the head back to me next week


    Here's the crank, it's all shiny I measured the journal diameters with my calipers and noticed they're a tad larger than what my FSM says for first repair, by a few hundreths of a mm, so I'll have to double check my measurements tomorrow and ask if it's a problem.


    New pistons vs. old pistons.


    And the block! I'd like to hit this with a quick coat of paint as well, so that's why the top is taped off.

    So yeah...this is actually happening
    - Mike | My Photos | '16 VW Golf R | '87 Mercedes-Benz 190E 2.3-16

  22. #122
    Quote: Originally Posted by ExplosiveToaster View Post
    It would look a little something like this:
    That is a very pretty car. Not a fan of the wheel color. I'm a huge fan of white though.
    I make pretty stuff
    www.twelvizm.com


  23. #123
    Normal Member ExplosiveToaster will become famous soon enough ExplosiveToaster's Avatar
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    Well there's why my shifter had so much side-to-side slop! I know which spring it is, now to find if it's still available.
    - Mike | My Photos | '16 VW Golf R | '87 Mercedes-Benz 190E 2.3-16

  24. #124
    Normal Member ExplosiveToaster will become famous soon enough ExplosiveToaster's Avatar
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    So the shifter spring is on order, as well as main bearings, thrust plates, crank seals, etc.

    Unfortunately, the spring, main bearings, and thrust plates need to be shipped from Germany and ECS estimates they'll be here at the end of the month. Looks like more waiting before the engine will go back together Unless anyone knows of another good place to find engine bearings. The only two places I've found the +0.25mm bearings are ECS and the dealership, and ECS charges $20 less per bearing.

    I guess it at least gives me some time to focus on the rear subframe.
    - Mike | My Photos | '16 VW Golf R | '87 Mercedes-Benz 190E 2.3-16

  25. #125
    Regular Member benny_mech will become famous soon enough
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    Quote: Originally Posted by ExplosiveToaster View Post
    I measured the journal diameters with my calipers and noticed they're a tad larger than what my FSM says for first repair, by a few hundreths of a mm, so I'll have to double check my measurements tomorrow and ask if it's a problem.
    I wouldn't sweat it, most calipers aren't that accurate. You'll need a mic to check those accurately.
    “Right now, it's like this.”
    ― Ajahn Sumedho

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