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Thread: MK3 VR6 possible fuel pump issue

  1. #26
    make car go faster guy Rabbit 16v is a jewel in the rough Rabbit 16v is a jewel in the rough Rabbit 16v is a jewel in the rough Rabbit 16v's Avatar
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    Ahh. Yes it does. Unless you like oil leaks.

  2. #27
    Normal Member Kinnikinnick is on a distinguished road
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    Looking at my bolt it looks like a coppered color washer comes with it. Newer style chains.

    After soaking in oil getting the air out can I just simply remove the current bolt and replace with the newly purchased one? I thought I would have to remove some parts to get it out. Is it that easy to replace?

  3. #28
    Regular Member benny_mech will become famous soon enough
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    Yes, it is. 2 minute job.
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  4. #29
    Normal Member Kinnikinnick is on a distinguished road
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    Anyone know the torque spec for the upper tensioner bolt? I've read 22 and 30ft-lbs but can't find an answer in the Bentley.

  5. #30
    Normal Member Kinnikinnick is on a distinguished road
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    I installed the new bolt and from cold start the chain clicking noise seems to be gone. After it warmed up the clicking is back.

    Did the bolt work at first and as the car warmed up at some point it started to fail thus the clicking noise is back?


    Cold Start
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9toEbDU8hs

    Warmed Up
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NsGZYWlYzk

  6. #31
    Regular Member benny_mech will become famous soon enough
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    I've successfully "bled" a tensioner bolt before, by sticking it in a cup of oil and pushing to cycle it. If the oil that comes out during this process is dirty, that might be clogging up the small oil holes in the tensioner.

    Incidentally, the reason I did the above was because I bought a brand new tensioner and it made a worse racket than the old one on installation.
    “Religion is a defense against the experience of God.”
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  7. #32
    Normal Member Kinnikinnick is on a distinguished road
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    I've never done it before until yesterday. I pushed the bolt in 10 times or so but never had it completely stiff. About 1/4 to 1/2 of movement when I pressed on it. I couldn't get any more oil in. So today I have taken the old one cycled the air out a bunch of times and have left it in a can of oil.

    When I pulled the old one out of the engine I immediately pushed on it and no oil came out. I had resistance but didn't see oil.

    My main question now is what is the noise in the videos above? I think the bolt isn't working thus the clicking sound. OR a broken guide.

  8. #33
    Normal Member Kinnikinnick is on a distinguished road
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    Could the oil in the engine be a cause of the ticking? Currently has 20w-50 non synthetic.

    Going to put 5w-40 in next change

  9. #34
    Regular Member benny_mech will become famous soon enough
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    Anything's possible, but that seems a little backwards to me, given that the problem is worse when warmed up. If the oil being too thick was the issue, I'd think it would be worse when cold.

    The tensioner won't get stiff when pumped by hand [so many jokes!], because it needs a continuous supply of pressurized oil. My goal in doing that was to get the air out, so the motor didn't take so long in doing it. For some reason this was a struggle on my motor.
    “Religion is a defense against the experience of God.”
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  10. #35
    make car go faster guy Rabbit 16v is a jewel in the rough Rabbit 16v is a jewel in the rough Rabbit 16v is a jewel in the rough Rabbit 16v's Avatar
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    I have never bled the tensioner on these and never had an issue. It sounds to me like a broken guide more than anything..

  11. #36
    Normal Member Kinnikinnick is on a distinguished road
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    If the upper guide is the only thing broken will finding the pieces only be done by pulling the trans and opening the entire upper and lower areas?

    Adam Lee did the chains in February but either installed lousy or I have some bad luck.

  12. #37
    Regular Member benny_mech will become famous soon enough
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    Broken pieces will most likely be in the oil pan. I'd drop that first.
    “Religion is a defense against the experience of God.”
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  13. #38
    make car go faster guy Rabbit 16v is a jewel in the rough Rabbit 16v is a jewel in the rough Rabbit 16v is a jewel in the rough Rabbit 16v's Avatar
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    Unless only the upper chain was replaced...

  14. #39
    Normal Member Kinnikinnick is on a distinguished road
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    I think the previous owner was trying to hide the clicking noise from me. Putting that heavy oil and and a bolt was missing from the rad fan making a clicking noise. Maybe im being paranoid. Sounds like I need to open the upper timing area to look from broken items before buying a chain kit. I am just worried the clicking noise isn't timing chain related.

  15. #40
    Normal Member Kinnikinnick is on a distinguished road
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    Quote: Originally Posted by Rabbit 16v View Post
    I have never bled the tensioner on these and never had an issue. It sounds to me like a broken guide more than anything..
    I hear two different things in there. The chain noise and the clicking. What could the clicking sound be from?
    I am trying to find youtube clips where I hear the click but no results. Only audible after engine is warm.

  16. #41
    Normal Member Kinnikinnick is on a distinguished road
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    Opened it up and took a look. Guides seem fine, nothing broken. No wear on the guides and everything is intact. Are some engines chains noisier than others? Any thoughts on wat the click would be?

    I want to drive this thing with less worry, I don't go more than 5 miles from home.

  17. #42
    Regular Member benny_mech will become famous soon enough
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    AAA that's how I roll.
    “Religion is a defense against the experience of God.”
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  18. #43
    Normal Member Kinnikinnick is on a distinguished road
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    Update: Been a year but have only put 2k miles on it. Haven't redone the chains yet. Changed the oil last week and noticed some copper color flakes. I assume these are rod bearing flakes. Which leads me to think low oil pressure that also effects the upper tensioner bolt causing the bolt to fail which could mean the chain slapping/clicking the upper guide. I really just need to pull this thing and get in there but looking for your opinions and thoughts as always.

    I am going to pull the motor completely so I can also drop the pan and check the bearings before ordering any parts.

    Few questions:
    1. If I have a rod bearing issue when I replace them will I need to order Rod bolts too?

    2. On a chain kit is it necessary in addition to the upper intake mani gasket to also purchase a lower mani gasket?

    3. Are new crank bolts (flywheel to crank) needed if I do a chain job?




  19. #44
    Regular Member Helios is on a distinguished road Helios's Avatar
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    Main bearing and rod bolts are stretch bolts IIRC, and will need to be replaced if you pull them. Unless you swap out to the ARP hardware, which are reusable assuming you don't over-torque and stretch them. Flywheel bolts are stretch bolts as well, and should be replaced. I know some people have re-used them in the past, but after having them loosen up on my Mk2 years ago, I always replace them. Minor cost compared to hassling w/ pulling a trans again. The lower manifold gasket will be dependent on whether or not you pull the lower manifold (I don't think it's required...but I'm going through a full rebuild so I don't recall for certain) and the condition it's in.
    Last edited by Helios; 2015.02.26 at 07:08 AM.
    -Chris S.

    "If they ain't a little too wide, they ain't wide enough!"
    '76 Mk1 / '86 Rocco / '87 XR4Ti / '93.5 SLC / '94 SVT / '95 RS / '03 GC Limited

  20. #45
    Regular Member benny_mech will become famous soon enough
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    I don't think the main bolts are stretchy, but the other ones, yes. I did ARP rod bolts when I put mine back together, and 12.9 SHCS for the mains. The machinist that resized the rods recommended ARP because they can be fully torqued during the resizing process. Bently says to torque, but not stretch them during resize, and I don't know if it really makes a difference or not. I'd replace that gasket while you're in there, and the fuel injector o-rings. They're cheap, and don't last forever.

    You ought to be able to pull the oil pan with the motor in the car; I've done it plenty of times. If the oil passages in the motor/crank are plugged up, the new rod bearings won't last long. That might be the reason the bearings are failing (assuming that's the issue).
    “Religion is a defense against the experience of God.”
    — C.G. Jung

  21. #46
    Normal Member Kinnikinnick is on a distinguished road
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    Im going to inspect soon, if bearings I guess I will have to spring for the ARP knowing its very likely ill need to get in there again. Where do you guys buy oem from? I am typically looking at GAP and Uro tuning but recently was introduced to Halsey in Portland.

    I also have access to a shop that can order my parts for me but they aren't VW, anyone know who the better whole part suppliers are?

    Thanks all! I hope things go well for but either way its a fun learning process.

  22. #47
    I often get parts from Fine Tuning..
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  23. #48
    Regular Member benny_mech will become famous soon enough
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    Fine Tuning (Chris / Rabbit 16V)
    1st VW Parts / Auburn Vw (Zeb / Zeblor)
    ECS Tuning (faceless corporate types )

    While you're in there mucking about, try pulling the front sway bar out and throwing it in the recycle bin. Best. Mod. Ev4r.... and it's free!

    I ended up cutting mine in half and welding it to a socket to use as a crank pulley removal tool. Just got that back from somebody I loaned it out to. If you need it, or other VR6 tools, let me know. I see you also reside in the Ever-moist suburb of North Boeing.
    Last edited by benny_mech; 2015.02.27 at 12:51 PM.
    “Religion is a defense against the experience of God.”
    — C.G. Jung

  24. #49
    Normal Member Kinnikinnick is on a distinguished road
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    Does anyone have any ideas on how to bolt the engine once to the stand so that I can have the timing chains and crankshaft exposed at the same time?

  25. #50
    Regular Member benny_mech will become famous soon enough
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    Sorry, I think I worked on one end at a time.
    “Religion is a defense against the experience of God.”
    — C.G. Jung

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